When Is It a Good Idea to Argue Against the Run-of-the-Mill, Garden-Variety Ignoramus?
Frequent commenter (when will I find a new descriptor?) MarcoPolo writes: Trump knows his audience will hear what they want to hear. His best publicists are his enemies. The more vitriolic and outraged they become, the more likable he seems.
He’s correct that attacking Trump makes him stronger, at least in the sense that it causes his supporters to dig their heels in deeper. If I were advising Hillary Clinton, I’d encourage her to be quite urbane about the whole thing and let the American people make the choice that suits them best. Insulting other people’s intelligence really isn’t a good idea, either pragmatically or morally.
I told my kids this when they were very young: around here, a) we get plenty of vitamins in our diets, and b) we don’t argue with crazy or stupid people. It only suggests that somehow, you’re on the same level. Also, you might get beaten up; these kinds of people easily resort to violence, because it’s the only thing they have in their favor. Don’t play their game.
@ Craig
The success of your site lies in creating healthy but robust discussion and debate that crosses over all lines under a generally defined lines of decency . That is a asset. Your Responsive position towards our ongoing Contrarian Denier of many of our positions is a sign of strength from my view.
Much better than a overly restrictive or reactive one for sure.
We get some excellent and well articulated descriptive explanations for the Status Quo from our Contrarian Colleague. Stimulating to read though much mis alignment in many areas.
Charge On
Perhaps it will lead to more persons participating as they will see and read diverse positions that stimulate greater Contemplative Analysis and Richer discussions with more participants.
But why do you have so many Posts going on at same time may I ask?
The way to beat Trumper is not to get into the mud with him and his Feeble minded followers as they are all caught up into a Vortex of mis directed and contradictory Rage. Read that Atlantic Monthly article from the doctor on the trumpster very revealing.
Hillary and her partner should Aim High and let the others go LOW. Let the public see the differences and the Cream can rise to the top as they say.
Communicate what you want to do for America Talk personable solutions not just grand vision policy that resonate with the pocketbook and social concerns is the way to overcome the sense of Fear roaming the Land.
Yes fire back on contrasts with the Trumpsters but dont do it in a Arrogant or Uppity Manner and Look strong in your positive , repeat Positive Convictions that resonate with the Public as their convictions.
At the end of the day people want to Vote For something and Not against something.
The Hindenberg had high octane fuel etc, and with one spark it exploded in flames! The Trump Movement is full of hot air that will either Implode or Cool off under its own weight of Folly. Let them do it.
Thanks for the kind words, Silent Running.
@ Craig
Hi there don’t know the lawrence C fella. He alludes to some novel energy solution to over come the deficits he claims makes wind, solar , etc/ inadequate for power supply etc.
Have asked him twice to present more info, but no reply. Do you have any idea what he is alluding to as a beater option than current renewable s??
Love to learn about more proposed Wonder Wands !
No; the dude is an enigma to me, to be perfectly honest, though I suppose he could be talking about nuclear.
Fortunately for us all, he’s incorrect that the development of renewable energy has been a waste of time and money.
@ Craig
Thanks for the reply re Laurence Coombs or close to it. You mentioned something about him to him when he posted a few posts before.
From the tone of his Post he said the $7 Trillion figure I posted for RE investments Globally was money mis spent.
He says there is a better solution but did not specify!
So if he is a Pro nuclear Genie Follower here are a few details re same – its limited progress and the Road Ahead
As of June 20th 2016
1. The French Gov and EDF their Engr firm got the green light to proceed on the Hinckley Pt Plant C in Western UK. This massive close to 3,000 meg plant is to replace the closing Hinckley Plant A which is at retirement after 50 years or so.
2. Plant B is closing in on retirement in a few years as well so UK needs replacement capacity.
3. Both the French and Brits need jobs and Arreva needs a win bad
4. While French gave Green Light but now the British government is reviewing and there is only a 50 to 50 chance that the New PM Ms.May will approve due to the significant engineering cost projections which are around $ 27 Billion for the plant.
5. Technical advisors to the UK government are concerned that the nukes are not the best cost value for UK going forward and there are other options that can reduce carbon emissions but at reduced Cost and RISK.
6. UK government to make decision in Oct or Nov this year whether to go with the nuke plant or cancel it. Also waiting in the Wings are the Chinese who want in on the nuclear action. Its up in the air.
On the New advanced forms of nuclear , Nu Scale ( Fluor Corp)is the furthest along and their Executives clearly state that it takes 25 years to develop the new nuclear technology. They are in year 16 now so they have 9 years to go. So their target date if all approvals go forward 2025 or 2026 for deployment in commercial setting.
They are talking to Idaho labs for test site and the Utah Cooperatives would like to use them for future power needs in Utah and Idaho.
Their application to the NRC is 10,000 pages plus and takes 40 months to review etc.
Don’t know how far along the Molten Salt reactors players are along but the moral of this Tale is that its a ways off. Obviously it takes Deep Pockets to Play in this market space so that Limits players on the Front end. With out Government support this new nuclear effort scares off private investment.
Frank conceded the time line in another Post.
My reply to this Lawrence and also to Marco Marco is that no matter how Enticing the Lure of the Dancing Nuclear Genie maybe, there is alot more dancing to do before the production can begin. Falling behind. When and if the 4 under construction in South get finally completed the Power Industry is going to face a big decision. Same with the Banks?
By 2025 solar and wind will be more entrenched with total megawatts well over 150,000 Megs or more. So nuclear will be a complimentary source and part of the Mix that is only if it can reduce its cost significantly and perform up to promotional claims.
The nuclear Genie dance needs a real lift the talking and promises long on the Tooth now. Renewable will only improve and get even more affordable it is past critical mass.
Craig do you think the parallel that R E detractors and the Nuclear Genie fan club have is a rejection of RE for some philosophical reasons more than technical perhaps? It sure can’t be costs. It seems , given all these facts.
What do you think ?
SR: A company is projecting that their technological development will be complete within 9 years. (Their 25 year estimate to a new nuclear technology may be inaccurate considering that nuclear fusion has been under development for more than 70 years.)
I don’t see how they could be “seeking approval” before the technological development is complete. Perhaps the 10,000 pages is a preliminary proof of concept? “deployment in a commercial setting” has many implications: A specific design of a commercial reactor, finding a buyer, resolving funding and most of all approvals and permitting can be expected to take an additional 10 years… for the first reactor. A substantial build out of a new design could an additional 10 to 20 years.
A new nuclear design might then be able to “save us” in about 30 years. Deployment could be advanced with a common design that could be built in one location and shipped to a point of use.
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A case could certainly be made that RE money has been spent poorly. Hindsight is often 20/20. The same could like be said for almost any investment into a new area of knowledge. This is not the same thing as the implication that the same money could have better been spent in another field.
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Craig, to the point of your original posting, we have a saying in my neighborhood that you should put energy (power) into the positive things that you want rather than the negative things that you want to avoid. Through the news media the country put a great deal of energy into the presidential bid of Trump. We do the same when we focus on any negative. The attention alone is a kind of power.
@ Breath on the Wind
Greetings, First of all I was sharing some recent press release info on the leading company in the Small Modular sector so called Advanced Reactor. Some of the comm-enters have a Yearning for more nuclear etc. So I try to converse along and see if there is new info to learn. As I have communicated in other Postings I am not a Big Rah Rah supporter of the nuclear sector for many reasons. Cost , risk and concentration of capital and power supply are issues. Also the changing nature of base load power demand nationally is reducing the need for large assets.
So I use the term Nuclear Genie as a mild form of Sarcasm etc.
However as a energy supply practitioner I try to keep an open mind and I do foresee some scenarios where just maybe if the Genie can finally really learn how to Perform in a cost effective manner perhaps it will fill the gaps w the current formats of Renewable Energy, Emerging Tidal Power, and End use Efficiency , Batteries etc. Only time will tell if SMR’s can . Around 8 co’s are in various phases of R & D in this area.
The leading company is Nu Scale. They are an out growth of Oregon St University and they have been at it for 13 years and are in serious negotiations with the US DOE and the NRC for installing a unit back East at a Federal Nuclear site – Savannah GA. They have been bought by the Global Engr firm Fluor so now they have Deep pockets.
Their big play is to install a 40 megawatt prototype at the Idaho Nat Lab in Idaho.
The 10,000 pages is an application to the NRC to get them to issue a Siting approval permit for construction etc. A NRC license.
The Lab wants the prototype and Nu Scale has the entire Utah Elec Cooperatives signed up to be their utility customer. The cooperatives are phasing out from Coal as are so many users now. So Nu Scale is well positioned to move this ball forward if things work out at the Idaho lab .
Their Executive says it will be in the 24th or 25 th year that they start getting multiple orders and shipping out the modular reactors to the various sites etc. their Goal is Global as many Nations are having second positions on the larger traditional nuke format. Falling out of favor to be blunt.
The take homes are many but the one that stands out is that it takes 25 years or so to get this done and by that time America will have 150 GW of solar or more and well over a 100 GW’s of Wind so the Small Modular Reactors will have lots of catching Up to Do! That Genie is going to have to Ramp into Over Drive to catch Up.
Most likely the Small Modular crowd will focus on the aging big nuke plant sites as its easier to get a NRC permit there as the site has one etc. The existing Nukes that are retiring per their end of life cycle in the 2030 time frame going forward so that may be the window of opportunity that works for the Genie , we shall see.
Breath on The Wind , these modular nukes if they can be commericalized along the lines the promoters say and claim they could Fill a energy void and reduce global warming etc. The deployment time is supposed to be 2 yrs or so and cost around $2,500 to $ 3,000 per KW over nite costs. With a high capacity factor of 80 to 93 % their LCOE will be real good. They will provide firming power to augment Renewable’s but they will be added in modular increments to a utiltiy co’s generation mix. This is so that they are Not Saddled with over generation costs and we consumers are not saddled with high power prices.
Perhaps this will all work out or Other better Options may preclude their progress ?? For now it is in the Nuclear Genie’s hands its on him or her.!
Your comment of 70 years for Fusion research and all its false starts and stops and hollow promises rings music to my ears. Its the Historical Record and the truth.
That work continues in France with a multi nation consortium pouring Billions into that Holy Grail Quest ???!!!??? so the years are still adding to the 70 ….
As for Investment in RE being bad , not my position.
The detractors of RE make many claims but they tend to over look that the prices for a solar KWHr has come down from $1.00 per kwhr to $ 3.5 cents now and dropping. Wind from Mid 40 cents per Kwhr to $ .03 cents so real price progress and real increased productivity Capacity Factors have been attained. Most of this has been done in the past 12 years which speaks for itself. The Nations, Firms and utilities keep buying it so someone must be Happy and Pleased. I see Great Investments made and wish the detractors well! Challenge them to produce other viable solutions not just talk about them in some Mythical Omnipotent manner etc.
I see some Wisdom in your thoughts re the Trump situation better to Go High when the Minions and Fools are going Low. Negative energy forces are areal thing. And their consequences.
Many people I know have tuned that Baudy Circus act Out. They try to focus on Positive things as you say. Oh well the circus never closes as they say.
Take care