A Reader Comments on a Possible Scenario with the Trump Presidency
In response to my post suggesting that we live in Orwellian times, Jeff Covel quotes me: “What exactly happens when facts cease to matter? Will we all wind up in a fascist civilization” and then writes:
I think not, Craig. Trump’s problems with the truth has already substantially alienated the independents among us, and even his base has begun to erode. We’re only five months into his term. As the months roll by and the lies and misdeeds add up his ability to pressure congress, and his re-electibility as well, will dissolve.
You’re right that his support from congress and the electorate at large is small and waning, making re-election an extremely remote possibility. But I think it’s more interesting than that, insofar as the evidence is mounting that what he’s done, even in these short five months, will get him removed from office before the end of his term. Some people think this is nonsense, but it sure is looking more and more that way.
Given that, a few points:
• We’re in uncharted waters; nothing even resembling this (i.e., electing a pathological liar to be president) has ever happened before here. Things like this occur every month somewhere in Africa and the rest of the third world, but never in the U.S. Watergate was a walk in the park in comparison to what it appears is going to happen here.
• Trump clearly isn’t going down without an intense fight. Nixon simply resigned to avoid going to prison, waved his arms in farewell to a few morons who still supported him, and flew away, essentially never to be seen again. It’s hard to imagine that anything like that is going to happen here. Exactly what that means is unclear, but if and when he’s legally removed, he’ll certainly still have at least a few million heavily armed and thoroughly infuriated supporters who will claim that he was thrown out in a coup perpetrated by a group of elite socialists who went around the rule of law. What happens next is anyone’s guess; I want to be in New Zealand when it happens.
• Undoing the damage he’s already caused is not going to happen overnight. If Anthony Kennedy resigns from the SCOTUS and Trump appoints another Antonin Scalia, this country will be going backwards for at least another generation.
We’ll have to wait and see. Thanks for the comment.
Craig,
You must realize you are slowly slipping deeper and deeper into a delusional fantasy, don’t you?
The problem you are having is refusing to accept that the US has elected a President who doesn’t share your values or concerns. He thinks, acts and speaks differently, because he’s a different type of person, with different aspirations and a different vision of the world.
What’s dangerous, is you just refuse to accept that someone you don’t approve of can be President !
What you are displaying is you only adhere to democratic representative government, so long as it’s for the benefit of people like you, and run by people like you.
Whether you like it or not, an outsider like Donald Trump is President. Even more annoyingly, he represents the sort of folk you always claimed to represent,(but secretly despised).
But, I suspect what you really hate, is he’s just so very American! Trump is how other nations think of America. He’s the idol of every working stiff, because he’s one of them. Or rather, he’s what they’d like to be if they had a billion dollars.
They’re the guy’s who don’t read the New Yorker, don’t live in Santa Barbra. These are the men an women who built America’s vast wealth, only to watch it be transferred to Asia and every where but their neighborhood. These are the voters who missed out on the information technology based ‘new economy” left behind in the ruins of of the old America when it was still great.
Yet these are the men (and women) who fight America’s wars, returning to broken dreams, hardship and sneered at by those in the ‘new’ economy. The new elite who benefit from Obama’s ‘symbolic grand gestures, paid for with borrowed money.
The new left, with it’s concern for the ‘environment’ and hand wringing over the poor in some mismanaged third world country. The “progressive liberal” giving billions to eurocrats while ignoring the tragedy of Detroit.
Those who benefit from having a new i phone to converse about the evils of American Exxon on facebook, while the globalised maker of the i phone, pays no US tax and produces the product in an appalling factory in the PRC.
Yeah, ol’ Donald’s not the greatest USA President, but at least he’s real, and painfully American.
The US Constitution has survived many US Presidents, many worse than Trump. He wont be impeached, or anything radical, just to please the outraged sensibilities of a few delusional sore losers.
The US Constitution is very robust, it makes room for unpopular Presidents, even ones with batshit crazy opponents. In four years, the people will once again cast their vote and decide.
That’s the way it works. The people decide, not the unelected courts, not the unelected media and pundits, the voter (or those who can bothered to vote) .
Whether you like it or not, as Teresa May and Hillary Clinton just found out, it’s an error to take voters for granted ! Legislators who forget that and try to unseat an elected President will pay the price.
That’s representative democracy. ( You may not like it, but then you may find NZ politics even more baffling) 🙂
I happen to know zero about NZ politics; you could be right about that. On the rest of this stuff: we’ll see.
Craig,
You are not alone, most New Zealanders find NZ politics baffling:)
Matthew 7:3, “And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”
This verse from the Sermon on the Mount, remains very applicable.
The unrelenting vitrol from anti-trump supporters has long passed any form of rational comment or responsible behavior. Leftist commentators, media figures, and entertainers have crossed appalling new boundaries.
The de-humanising of Trump and his supporter’s began with Hilary Clinton’s “deplorables” comment and escalated until suggestions of violence toward the President, members of Congress and Trump supporters, is acceptable and even excused. Worse, the victims are blamed for the actions of the perpetrators.
It’s not just Johnny Depp’s questionable sense humour regarding of Presidential assassination, but comedians and others suggesting violence,(cutting off the presidents head etc), attacks on his family, including sexual violence toward his family members.Even his 11 year old son, is not free from the vitrol.
I notice your silence concerning the recent act of random violence toward GOP congressmen. Obviously, you see no correlation between your intemperate assessment of the President and his supporters, and the increasing mood of violence. It’s all to easy to qualify the most inflammatory remarks with “oh,I’m against any violence”.
Extremists don’t appear from nowhere. Most extremists believe their actions have wider approval among those who only talk, but are afraid to act.
I’ll bet every member of any lynch mob, justifies the act by insisting the victims drove them to it. Those who just went along, later deny involvement, and pretend to be shocked by the outcome, but still secretly blame the victim.
Dehumanizing Trump, and Trump supporters, is the first stage of licensing and justifying extreme action to deny the legitimacy of his administration. It’s not enough to simply oppose his policies, he, and those who voted for him, must be denied legitimacy.
One of the most basic tenets of any representative democracy, is the ability of oppositions to accept defeat and tolerate governments they don’t support until the next election.
The excuse “the President provokes it”, is used by every commentator to excuse their own actions. It’s the denial of responsibility by those who should know better that permits extremism.