Consumer Fraud in Electric Transportation
The claim: No it doesn’t….unless you’re pushing it, pulling it, or coasting it down a hill. Holy mother of God. We live in a land that elected Donald Trump president and fills pastor/fraud Joel Osteen’s pockets with money, but we’re still not stupid enough to believe this.
The guy who posted this on FB asks: RVs aren’t real?
I explained: “RVs are real. RVs that run on a few square meters of PV are imaginary.”
I suspect that it’s an underpowered EV with a large battery, capable of slow travel, painstakingly slow uphill.. and it’s target market is ideological yet uninformed “tree hugger” or “hippie” style environmentalists.
I have no doubt there’s actually a charge cable, but you could – if you left it soaking the sun for a few days – recharge the battery without a charge cable. So you can take it for a slow drive to a fixed RV camping area, rely on the panels for your RV comfort needs, and very gradually see the battery recharge over a week-long camping trip, then slowly trundle back home.
I don’t expect this to have a large market, but I doubt that it is a non-functional vehicle. It’s likely just an electric RV (complete with a plug) that someone stuck a bunch of solar panels onto.
Glenn.
For a ‘senior analyst’, you seem to have an extraordinarily lazy approach to research.
Why “guess” and contribute to Craig’s libelous reply, when a quick google would add to your knowledge or you could just read my comment posted a day earlier ?
I think everyone here has the right to make casual comments, provide opinions, etc. No one is obligated to write only elaborate, fully researched comments.
And btw, there is clearly no fraud on the part of the RV manufacturer named in the post; that German company make legitimate RVs. I suppose this was more a case of a hoax, fake news, or whatever one wants to call it. Some guy added the PV, and then either he or someone else made the false (or grossly misleading) claim.
Craig,
WTF !
Did you also ignore my post ?
There is no hoax !!! No fake news !! (except by you). Nobody “added ” anything!
It’s an experimental vehicle with a lot of very expensive technology. No body claimed it’s a production model.
The technology all works under the right (carefully nominated) conditions. The vehicle does exactly what it claims.
There’s no question the vehicle is impractical for many reasons as a commercial production model, (not the least price) but it’s no more a fraud than most working concept models.
I’ve seen the vehicle with my own eyes, witnessed its performance and analyzed the validity of the claims.
There is no hoax !
As for opinions, well if you’re going to contradict another contributor, it’s courteous to possess just a little knowledge about the subject, don’t you think ?
In Glenn case, I would have thought as a “senior analyst” the habit of checking facts would be so ingrained, it would be second nature to know at least a little about a subject before contradicting others.
I would be mortified to find I had contradicted, let alone libeled someone without carefully researching to know what I’m talking about.
(But maybe I’m a different sort of analyst)
OK, calm down. Deep breaths.
I couldn’t find mention of it on the company’s website, so I assumed that they had nothing to do with it.
I’m not saying that you can’t build one of these. But claiming that it performs “off the grid” in any way that even remotely resembles the automobiles on our roads today is most definitely fraudulent; that’s true by virtue of math and physics; I don’t need to test it. But I suppose that’s dependent on what the claims are exactly. If you don’t touch it for several cloudless days it might give you enough range to get home if you live very close by and not uphill from where you’re camping.
Whatever.
Craig,
Perhaps these sites may assist ;
http://www.victronenergy.com/blog/2017/08/26/dethleffs-electric-drive-motorhome-with-victron-onboard/
newatlas.com/dethleffs-electric-motorhome-concept/51096/
It’s neither fraudulent, nor against the laws of math and physics to claim a solar vehicle the size of a motor home could in the future be powered by solar.
You also seem to be labouring under the assumption the manufacturer claimed the vehicle could operate independently of any other form of charging, ie; permanently “off grid” !
No such claim was ever made !
However, the vehicle is designed to be able to add up to 3000 kw per hour depending on battery size, location and if the technology can really integrate super-capacitors.
This energy supplement would certainly offset the obvious disadvantages inherent with such an aerodynamically challenged EV. It also allows for much greater use of electrically powered appliances.
The whole point of a large motor home is it isn’t used for commuter purposes or keeping a schedule. It doesn’t resemble the rest of road vehicles anymore than does a road grader.
This sort of RV is designed for the retirement market, where people live in vehicle, slowly touring where their fancy takes ’em.
But, as I say, it’s not a production model. It’s a working showcase to display the potential.
The vehicle would be prohibitively expensive and I suspect impractical impractical when all those panels were exposed to the rigors of road traffic, but it’s not fraudulent.
It’s an interesting experiment, and the successful incorporation of super-capacitors with advanced battery design is a development that should excite solar enthusiasts, not attract a knee jerk adverse reaction.
I believe my criticism is valid, it not a good idea to judge something without a modicum of research. It’s wise to read what the person or organization actually says, rather than form a judgement from a third party garbled account.
Craig,
While my initial reaction was the same as yours, I think calling the vehicle a “Consumer fraud ” is a libel !
Perhaps I should explain, the RV is an experimental ‘concept ‘ vehicle manufactured by a very old (1832) and highly reputable German coach builder Dethleffs GmbH & Co.
Dethleffs is a subsidiary of the Erwin Hymer Group. The Erwin Hymer Group is a huge German conglomerate with more than 6000 employees and annual sales exceeding $4 billion.
Dethleffs teamed with the equally reputable Victron Energy to produce a concept all electric RV.
The RV is certainly real (I’ve seem it) and the science is equally real. The Vehicles specifics are as follows:
An Iveco Daily Electric chassis with a liquid-cooled three-phase AC motor with a power of 80kW, utilising modern FIAMM Sodium Nickel Chloride batteries with a capacity of 3 x 76 Ah at 400 V.
These can be recharged up to 1,500 times equating to a mileage of circa 250,000 km. Of particular interest are the special installed ‘Supercaps’. These high-power capacitors allow a faster recharge and delivery of the electrical energy in comparison to the usual batteries – and so increase the performance of the vehicle as well as the lifecycle of the batteries.
The point of the vehicle is not to produce a production model, (cost would be prohibitive) but to prove the potential of the technologies involved.
The vehicle can certainly travel more than 38 miles,( I’ve witnessed this with my own eyes) and more or less will achieve it’s claims under optimum conditions.
Concept, Experimental, yes! Consumer Fraud, no !