Beware of Trolls
It’s safe to say that literally all 2GreenEnergy visitors who read the comments section of our blog have come across professional gadfly MarcoPolo. If you get a chance, check out his response to my recent post on meat made from plant protein (below, unedited).
As you do, you may ask yourself the same questions that struck me: Keeping in mind that he’s a troll on a great number of other environmental websites, how many staffers does this guy have? Who pays him and all these people? Why?
Btw, though he may have a gaggle of researchers, it’s definitely one person who does the final writing, as his content isn’t terrible, but, though he claims to be an attorney, he uses “it’s” and “its” indiscriminately and puts spaces before punctuation marks; I cannot believe that there is more than one such person on this planet.
Here it is:
Did you enjoy your BYB (beyond beef) meal for the monosodium glutamate (MSG) it contains ?
Or didn’t you notice that BYB cunningly disguises that information as “yeast extract” ?
Hmmm…, what about the addition of “Succinic Acid” (a chemical usually usually confined to the production of perfume esters) . This little additive is linked to:
1) Mitochondrial matrix and function in the cytoplasm as well as the extracellular space, changing gene expression patterns, modulating epigenetic landscape or demonstrating hormone-like signaling.
2) Damage to cellular metabolism (especially ATP formation0 preventing regulation of cellular function.
3) Dysregulation of succinate synthesis, and therefore ATP synthesis causing genetic mitochondrial diseases such as Leigh’s and Melas disease.
4) Degradation linked to pathological conditions such as malignant transformation, inflammation and tissue injury.
But hey, not to worry since the Trump administration’s US Food and Drug Administration has removed the product from the “industrial use only” category since food manufacturers can now self-affirm ingredients as being safe under the agency’s GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) (so you don’t need to worry !)
Then there’s Maltodextrin. Good old Maltodextrin a highly processed sugar linked to increses in diabetes and autoimmune disorders like Crohn’s disease. Again the FDA say’s okay, unless you are at risk of contracting or suffering from any one of 38 health conditions, but hey no problem, eh?
” Bleached Bamboo” ? yum !
Annatto Synthesized Extract, the FDA warns this chemical is linked to irritable bowel syndrome and anaphylaxis.
Vegetable Glycerin, probably harmless, unless you a genetically prone (17% of population) to gastric issues such as diarrhea, bloating or nausea, or bowel cancer.
Erucic acid, okay, that at least is pretty harmless, unless you are a child, or pregnant in which case consumption makes you a candidate for myocardial lipidosis.
Refined Coconut oil, a really great environmental product ? Well not really especially when burgers are grilled. Grilling usually means temperatures above 450 degrees at which point refined coconut oil burns and becomes toxic. For employees this means a work environment with the equivalent carcinogenic exposure as smoking 120 cigarettes per day !
Reading through all the ingredients , I would guess the ingredients in a BYB would be safer than the more heavily chemically engineered “Impossible Burger” .
There are health risks associated with meat consumption also, but the fundamental difference is evolution has equipped humans with hundreds of thousands of years to cope with meat consumption, and governments, health authorities are always increasing regulatory safeguards for the meat industry.
It would appear the food scientists behind both ‘Beyond Meat’ and ‘Impossible Meat’ are eager to cash in on the latest food fad, disguising as “natural” highly processed products with little or no research or regulation.
Craig,
” Troll eh ” ? My goodness I do seem to have stirred an angry vegetarian from the undergrowth haven’t I ?
(But then again, Adolf Hitler also espoused vegetarianism, and he wasn’t too keen on dissent either ! :).
Calling someone a troll isn’t really debating, certainly not as effective as proving them to be in error or lacking proper knowledge.
If my facts were in contention or lacked veracity, you could so easily disprove what I wrote. Indeed. I would welcome correction of any information you feel is inaccurate..?
But, sadly, it appears you can do neither, instead you simply resort to calling me a “troll”
(which I would have thought was a bit beneath you) and launching a weirdly \ pedantic attack on my use of the word(s) it’s and its. ( English is fluid language with different spelling’s and grammatical use in different parts of the world).
As for the rest of your criticism, I contribute to various website forums as a diversion, usually while traveling. I find it relaxing and prevents airsickness, also I can never sleep on aircraft. For brevity, I use Speech Recognition software, but it sometimes gets it wrong.
Why did I comment on synthetic meat ? Who pays me ? I thought I had made that obvious when I provided the information I’m a farmer of beef cattle ! The vested interest should have been apparent even to the most ardent troll catcher!
Most of the information in my response is available from articles in the WSJ,Scientific American and British Medical Journal. All is easily obtained from a quick google search.
The news aggregation site RealClear provides a daily quick and balanced round up of valuable, informative articles including a wide range of sources and view points. RealClear’s format is easy to read and bookmark . Great for quick and easy reference, especially if like me, you’ve made a relatively small investment in cross referencing software.
RealClear is free, but other news aggregators exist on a subscription basis. Some are pretty basic while other are very detailed and provide extensive (and expensive)expert analysis.
Craig, I don’t mean to be impolite but I believe an advocate like yourself should be able to refute any rational and referenced critique, without rancor or resorting to personal attacks.
There was a time when you would have agreed with this proposition, after all dispute and debate are the gateway to learning, as idea’s are exchanged and theories are put to the test.
It would appear you’ve lost elasticity with the dawning of the “age of Trump” , instead preferring to preach to a shrinking choir and an increasingly barren comments section. You seem to have adopted Trump’s method of not responding to dissent by refuting facts with facts, but simply either ignoring contrary information, or shouting louder and resorting to (as Cameron would say) ad hominen attacks.
All over the world Beef Farmers and their families (well, all farmers) have spent generations working incredibly hard with long hours, risk and little reward. How do you think they feel about suddenly being cast in the role of bad guys or environmental vandals and lectured by a bunch of people who have never stepped outside the city and know absolutely nothing about agriculture ?
These people are entitled to correct misinformation and distorted facts without being called “trolls” !
Are you saying that providing accurate consumer information about the content of foodstuff’s offered by a 100 million dollar corporation is a “trollish” activity ? Or should such information be restricted solely to products you don’t favour ?
Craig,
“he’s a troll on a great number of other environmental websites ”
I think it’s only fair you list these “great number of other environmental websites” , or admit you just made that up without any personal knowledge.
(Is this just another “Trump moment” ? 🙂
Another frequent commenter here said that; I am unwilling to invest my time verifying it.
Craig,
So, it was a “Trump” moment ! I can’t think of a better definition ! Admitting you can’t be bothered to verify the sources of information you pass off as your own, isn’t really a good look !
I know it’s hard to be caught out, exposed by your own hubris and hypocrisy, in my experience when finding myself in such a position, it’s best to own the error , apologize and try to be more accurate in the future.
It’s not wrong to “believe” in any particular idea or philosophy, but once you set yourself up as an advocate, you take on a responsibility to be sincere and accurate.
The responsibility is to the cause itself, and others who maybe attracted to the particular cause. Credibility, is an essential quality every advocate must value or he does damage not only to himself, but the causes he espouses.
This is a time the world needs environmental advocates and supporters of clean tech more than ever, but it needs accurate, carefully sourced, well reasoned information even more ! Credibility is more essential than ever, especially in a age when every claim can be easily checked.
Oh, and just a comment on the adherence of law graduates to strict grammatical rules, according to the Guardian Newspaper;
“Around half of all CVs received by recruitment consultants, says the Recruitment and Employment Commission (REC), contain spelling or grammatical errors, and these are most likely to be made by those aged between 21 and 25.
In this age group, graduates are twice as likely to make mistakes as those who did not go on to university. The worst offenders being found among graduates in law, arts and journalism.”
It seems misuse of the Saxon genitive is widespread, while outraged grammatical pedagogue are a dying breed 🙂
Let’s suppose that the allegation is wrong. Let’s suppose that you spent several hours researching everything that could possibly be said to defame Beyond Meat because you are intellectually curious or whatever. Let’s suppose that this is the same reason you spent an equally enormous amount of time defending (moron) Justin Fareed (U.S. House of Reps Candidate), someone of whom you could not possibly have even heard if you truly are an Australian lawyer. Who the eff is stupid enough to believe you do this because it’s you hobby? My advice: take you ridiculous act someplace were people are idiotic enough to believe it.
You are right that English-speaking people’s grammar is bad and getting worse, but it will still be quite a while until anyone who expects to be taken seriously will use “it’s” and “its” interchangeably.
Craig,
Firstly, thank you for your reply, and let me respond to the points you raise.
I) I consider myself Australian, however I spend only about half the year in Australia since my main business is based in the UK (where I was born and still own property).
2) Although I qualified as a lawyer, (remain registered and entitled to practice) I haven’t practiced law for many years. I am by profession a merchant (investment) banker and analyst.
3) I don’t spend “hours” researching ! As I explained, researching can be simple, quick and easy with just a little investment and organization.
4) Again, it’s (short for it is :), you jump to incorrect and arrogant conclusions because you don’t read carefully. Had you bothered to read what I actually wrote, you would discover I has already explained how I know Justin. The sentence “Justin devoted much energy to promoting state-of-the-art desalination and water treatment solutions.(which is how I met him)”, should have provided you with the necessary information !
We have a mutual interest as cattle farmers in desalination and water treatment solutions.
I’ve also met (albeit briefly) his opponent, Salud Carbajal of whom I formed a favourable impression. I don’t see the point in calling people “morons”, simply because I disagree with their opinions.
It might surprise you, but Australia is actually connected to the internet and in only 16 flying hours Australians can attend conferences in California. (We also get podcasts :).
5) Last year I spent 4 months touring the US coal and rust belt. I met literally hundreds, if not thousands of Americans. 3 years ago, I spent a total of 106 days in the US studying US agricultural investment opportunities. I have a son, whom I visit living and working in the US who is another source of expert information.
Over the last 30 years of visiting America, I’ve had the privilege of meeting and listening to many thousands of Americans from all walks of life.
As a Merchant banker it’s my job to research, analyses and hopefully understand a wide range of economic, social and business developments. My team helps, but if I can’t get that gut feeling, or intuition, my success ratio declines and I lose my clients and my own money.
Before I attend a conferences, attend meetings, even formal social functions, I compile a background (or have it compiled for me) concerning the people I’m likely to meet. I also receive a background about their opponents, positions etc. (Good research software is a great help).
6) “defame Beyond Meat because you are intellectually curious”.
Again, as I twice explained in detail, as a cattle farmer, “synthetic meat” is not just “intellectual curiosity”, but a development I’ve been carefully studying for several years! Just as I’ve invested time and a great deal of money on R&D to help reduce ruminant the climate change emissions and other agricultural technology.
But, again I notice in your desperation, you continue with a personal attack on me because you can’t refute my facts. It’s only “defamation” if I can’t verify my claims, in this case you can’t refute my facts, nor would Beyond Meat. (because Beyond Meat published material is the source of my information!)
Craig, look around you. The English language is constantly evolving, new words enter the lexicon and lingua franca daily. The old grammarian movement that tried to bludgeon the English vocabulary into a Latin grammatical structure are now fossils, laughed at as ” Grammar Nazis”.
It’s also more than a little elitist, pettily snobbish, and unkind to denigrate the opinions of others by sneering pedantically about grammatical imperfections. ( Bur hey, why not try writing for the New Yorker? :).
As I previously opined, as an advocate you must be able to substantiate and verify your claims, or you become the thing you claim to despise. Imagine how you would be outraged if President Trump made the claim ;
” my opponent is a troll on a great number of other environmental websites”.
Then when challenged said, ”
Oh, someone [unknown] said that, but I am unwilling to invest my time verifying it !
Quite rightly, you would be outraged and say he’s covering up a lie, with another lie, obviously he’s not only unwilling to acnowledge he’s wrong, but just doesn’t care.
If you were Hillary Clinton you could argue it doesn’t matter because the person the lie was directed at, is a “deplorable”, but that poses a bit of moral dilemma in itself, doesn’t it ?
Oh well, never mind. I hope you spent a great Mothers day with your Mother and Wife. Your Mother sounds like a great, spirited lady.
Happy Mothers Day.